Insights into classical music management

Jack Lin is an experienced Arts Administrator, Manager and Producer in the performing arts industry. Originally trained as a violinist and educator, now specialising in artist, project & event management with strong business development in the Asia-Pacific region.

In this episode we talk about how to find concerts, how to talk to event organisers, what personal qualities contribute to success and what makes musicians appealing to promoters and audiences.

Transcript

Jack Lin – background and his journey to classical music management

IG: Welcome to the Classical Music Career podcast. Our guest today is Jack Lin, an artist manager and producer at Shaksfin Asia Agency, who will share useful insights about classical music management.

Jack, please introduce yourself briefly. Tell us what you do, who you're, and how you connected to classical music.

JL: I first studied violin. It wasn't until my senior year that I decided I wanted to try something different. So I applied for an internship with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra in the marketing department. I did that for about six months, and then I joined the Lorin Maazel Opera Festival in Castleton, Virginia. I was sort of the assistant to the executive director and the music director.

IG: And after that you applied for a job at the artist management company? 

JL: Yes, that's right. Then the company I work for now hired me and I moved to Singapore. That was already 10 years ago.

IG: Why did you decide to take on a managerial role? 

JL: It was more of a coincidence. When you go to music school, you're very focused - you're just practicing, there is only one direction. And in a way, it's quite competitive because everyone around you is practicing and practicing and practicing… When you're young, it gives you a certain focus. It trains your technique and your skills.

But when you get older and especially when you graduate, you start to see the world. The world isn't just the practice room and auditions, there is so much more.

Just because you're practicing doesn't mean you're going to make it. No. 

I felt like, if you practice, you get to a certain level, but then you're so stressed all the time and wondering how you can do it better. 

I thought to myself, what do I want to do? Do I want to play in an orchestra, in the back of the second violins for the rest of your career? Would I be happy to do that for 20 years? Then I realized that the answer is actually no, not really. So what else was I going to do?

My accompanist at the time was very wise. She said, "Why don't you keep practicing but also start looking around at what else you could be doing in music business?" And that's when I started looking around to see if maybe the performance track wasn't quite what I wanted. 

That was towards the end of my master's degree in violin. So I was thinking about doing a PhD in musicology. And then I came across applications for internships in orchestras and other arts organizations. And I thought, why not just give it a try? 

So I put together my CV and sent it off, and lo and behold, I actually got a response from the orchestra. When I went for the interview, they said they don't usually take people in marketing positions who don't have a degree in business or marketing. But they thought it was interesting that I was from a music background and thought they'd give me a try.

And then one thing led to another. I applied for a couple more jobs and actually got them. 

IG: It's amazing that you figured out what you wanted to do so early, because there are young artists who finish school and think, "Okay, I've been practicing for 20 years, so I have to do this." Even though it's not what they want to do. It's great to have enough self-awareness and self-confidence to make a decision to change something in your life.

JL: When I started getting into this artist management role, I met a lot of people who became general managers.

A very good example of this was when I was introduced to the then CEO of the New York Philharmonic. He was a French horn player and played for many years in a professional orchestra in the United States. As time went on, he changed his career from performing to arts management.

And I began to find out that a lot of people in these top positions are actually musicians. I suppose it hits us at different stages and different points in our lives. What we feel or what's more important to us and where we can be of benefit to the organization or the arts.

IG: Sometimes you feel like you have something to say as an artist, but you also feel like you can do so much more for the organization that you believe in. It's important that people in arts administration positions also have some experience in music performance, so they understand exactly how music works, how musicians think, what they work with, and what they sell. It's so important that they're on the same wavelength.

JL: I think it's different in Asia than in Europe, because in Asia, the top of arts management usually doesn't come from the music industry. So there's always a bit of discord, even though it's changing in some places.

Audience and its changing attention span

IG: You said that the audience is different today. The attention span is so much shorter. As a producer, do you think about that when you're organizing a concert or a tour or is that not really in your control? Because when you invite an artist, they probably only want to play what they want to play.

JL: Yes and no. There's never a set formula. I think it depends on the context, where the concert is and who the artist is. With Gidon Kremer, for example, you get the programs from the management. Of course you can have a discussion, but  Gidon has a very specific way of doing it, and it works because he's Gidon. So that's one part.

And then, of course, there are the younger artists. Here you have to help and give direction, but that also depends on their repertoire and what their strengths are.

Attention spans are getting shorter and shorter because of technology, and of course people want everything fast and quick, and they don't want to watch an entire performance repeated over and over again.

I think it has more to do with whether the audience wants to come back if they get bored with the performance.

So it's about finding ways to engage your audience. And that they're used to hearing different kinds of music. There will always be an audience for something. It's just a question of how much audience you can attract and how many people will come.

IG: How to engage the audience in a way that keeps them coming back for the second or third time? Is it just about programming pieces that keep people coming back? Or is it about a concert formats where you need to communicate with the audience or make it interactive in some way?

JL: I think it really depends on the region, especially in Asia. In every region, every city, every country, there's a different culture of how people go to concerts.

Sometimes it's the program, sometimes it's the right artist. And sometimes they just want something completely different. I think it depends, and especially in Asia, the power of marketing is crucial. I mean, here we're in Korea, and whether it's K-pop or classical music, the power of marketing is crucial.

Like we said, practice, practice, practice, so you can make it to Carnegie Hall. Of course, you have to have a certain level and talent, you can't not be good, right?

But what gets you to the top? Practicing gets you through the door, let's say. There are so many fantastic players. The ones that make it through the door are many.

When I was in school, there were hundreds of violinists, and they all play very well. They can play all the concertos and all the pieces, right? So how do you get from that level to the next? What are the things that you do? These are things that go beyond practicing.

Of course, it helps a little bit if you look good, but you also have to know how to market that. You can look good, but then you don't know what to do with it.

It also has to do with your personality. You may be good looking, but you're a little shy. And in our profession, in performing arts, you need that self-confidence. If you really want to make it in the music business, you have to dare to go beyond the limits.

To get to another level, of course, you need a whole package of personal qualities but it also has a lot to do with luck - being heard by the right people, creating a network of contacts and people to reach out to.

Marketing for classical musicians

IG: You talked about marketing and that it's important, especially here in Asia. But who has to invest in this marketing? Is it the artists themselves who invest, or the management and the agencies?

JL: I think it's a little bit of both, because the managers can only do so much.

I think the first part is that the artist has to have their own marketing power, their own marketing base. Nowadays, that's Instagram and Facebook. Also, the artist has to have their own promotional material that they can control - their own website, bio, photos.

Then there's the agent or the manager, who can show these materials on their own websites to attract potential promoters and orchestras. That's the kind of internal marketing.

Then there's the end product - a concert. Then the organizers do marketing for their city or their region. And that, again, is related to how successful the marketing is done from the beginning, which is the part that depends on the artist.

A very good example would be if soloist A has a very strong Instagram following, then that's a very positive sign for the presenter.

If artist A is asking for X amount of money, which might be high, the presenters will be more likely to agree to that amount because there is already a certain guaranteed number of listeners who will buy tickets due to artist’s own social media channels. This is a simple formula - the promoter doesn't have to spend as much on their own marketing because ticket sales are guaranteed by the artist's successful social media marketing.

Working with Artists in the Asia-Pacific Region 

IG: It's really amazing how you just explained the value of social media for an artist in classical music industry.

How do you find the artists you work with? Do you approach the artists or do they approach you?

JL: Both ways. For us, it depends on a number of factors. Our specialty at Shaksfin Asia is touring in the Asia-Pacific region. So that's our territory. We're one of the few agencies that work across the region, which gives us an advantage because we can look at the region as a whole.

It's not like Europe, where there are agencies that cover all of Europe. In Asia, it's more like there are agencies in every country. So if you go from China to Japan, Korea and Taiwan, Southeast Asia and Australia, the artists usually work with local agencies in each country, which is very fragmented. 

That's partly because of the language, but also because of the different cultures and ways of thinking in different countries. So it's very difficult to put it all together. 

For example, if an agency wants to bring an artist, they want to share the cost with a number of different promoters. But it's difficult for them to approach, for example, a Chinese, Japanese and Korean promoter because there are different cultures and mentalities. 

An agency like us helps get that right. We see the bigger, more comprehensive picture. That's why a lot of artists come to us, because they see that as an advantage that we can bring to them when they are on tour.

IG: When you approach an artist, for example, and they say, "We have this program we want to perform." How do you analyze whether or not it's going to sell?

JL: There is no set formula.

For example, sometimes a presenter or a promoter will ask me for a certain kind of program, and by chance someone sends me a message that they're looking for a tour that fits that profile, and suddenly you find another presenter somewhere who wants to do that, and then you put a tour together.

In some cases, it's long-term planning. However, unlike in Europe, in some Asian countries there is very short-term planning - especially in China.

It remains to be seen what will happen in the post-pandemic period, but before the pandemic in China, especially in the smaller cities, tours could often be organized within six months.

How to find concerts

IG: Without giving away any trade secrets of classical music management, how do you find concerts? You probably have a contact at each concert venue, right? So you can call or email and say, "Hey, we have this program, can we perform it here on this date?" Is that how you find concerts?

JL: If you've been doing this for many years, you know virtually everyone in your field.

You know the taste of the artistic director at this or that place. You know the direction of the venue - do they program more contemporary music or early music and so on. So you know a little bit about what you can propose and where.

IG: Is there also the possibility for young artists approach agency, promoter or a music director and propose something by themselves when they're just starting out?

JL: Yes, it's possible, and I think it can't hurt to try, even a few times, because sometimes it just comes down to timing and a little luck.

If you contact an agency and don't get a response, sometimes it's not because they're not interested or they don't like a proposal. I think it's more because of opportunity, if your program fits into a certain schedule.

Like I said, sometimes it's a happy coincidence. For example, a jazz group contacted me. Normally we don't organize jazz concerts. But the promoter we work with just asked for an American-style jazz group, and it just fit and worked out. So sometimes it just happens that way.

I think, especially for more conventional classical artists, like violinists or pianists who play a standard repertoire, there has to be something of value, that is beyond playing.

You have to have a unique voice, something that sets you apart from the crowd, a unique story - something that would get an agent or manager's attention.

You need to have a unique story

IG: In the conversations I've been having lately, it seems to me that story is crucial. For a website I was creating, I had to go through about 300 artists who were collaborating with a chamber orchestra over the past decade.

After four or five days of reading people's bios, there were maybe three or four stories that stood out. The rest were like, “born here, started to play at the age of four, won this competition, played in that concert hall...”

It's good to know this information but it doesn't tell a story, it doesn't tell what makes you different from all the other artists, who have the same biography and the same number of medals.

It's very important that the very first paragraph has something that gets people's attention.

JL: Exactly. It depends on the attention span, you know? If you have a very long resume, people wouldn't even read it because with stuff that is long, we just scroll and say, "oh no, it's so long". So you're just reading the top part.

You should record a demo

IG: Does it make sense to record a demo for a new project or program for example?

JL: Yeah, because you have to see it. You can write all the flowery resumes you want but that doesn't mean anything. At the end of the day, you want to listen, you want to have good material.

I think videos are just important, event if it's only a few minutes long. You don't need the whole thing. Nobody's going to listen to the whole Brahms concerto. They'll listen to the highlights and then to just get a sense.

Making a living as a musician

IG: Can classical musicians make a good living? 

JL: That's a tough question because, as a soloist, like a soloist on tour... That's a tough one. Hmm. Unless you're really in the A list, it's hard. The fee structure is also a bit of luck. It's always a matter of trial and error. I don't think we have to be greedy, but when you charge a fee as musician, you're not just charging for an hour of performance, you're charging for your abilities, twenty years of practicing, your skills, the things you bring to the table.

So, some artists, I don't want to name names, but some artists, because they're so good at social media, they can get higher fees because they say - "Look at my Instagram followers. I can guarantee you a certain number of ticket sales before you even advertise anything".

IG: What career advice would you give to young musicians?

I think the first one is, you need to follow your passion. What is it that you want to do?

Do you want to stay in music, art or do you want to do something completely different? I think you just have to be clear about what direction you want it to go. And then you have to work hard and just be creative. 

You have to think creatively. Because there's always a direct or indirect solution to a lot of problems. You just have to think outside the box a little bit. 

IG: Thanks, Jack, thanks for your time.